A male co-worker of mine and I were talking about the idea of submission in relationships on on two separate occasions. The first time, he told me that I need to learn to submit to my Man. The second conversation happened about a month later, and he said that he was proud of me because he saw that I was learning to submit to my Man. Sistas, what is your take on submission? Is it good, is it bad, is it even necessary in a relationship? What do you think?
Personally, I don't think that submission is a negative thing depending on the circumstance. I think it is important to let a Man lead, but this does not mean that he must control. I want to have the kind of Man who can make sound decisions where I am not resistant to allowing him to lead. But he must understand and value my opinion on matters. What about you sistas?
Bless
Wow!!!
a couple of comments or observations. First on the submission. I'm uncomfortable with the term itself, but I believe I understand the sentiment. I prefer to be the moon to my sun. A strength unto myself, in my own right. I guide the night. Never to be beneath, but to compliment. My husband being older than I, has more years on this planet and consiquently more experiences (not always true for others). So I trust that he is more intune with his instict than I am. But I am a queen with a NATURALLY stronger conection to soul or what is sometimes refered to as "womens intuition", a very powerful thing. He is my compliment. We are an expression together that takes many different forms. Whenor if I change our family diet/live-it, he trusts my decision. So there are chapters in our book that are strong for him and others strong for me. And yes, I will bathe him because I know he enjoys it. I do most of the cooking because it is my pleasure to be in my laboratory, create and see him and our expression of love (our star) enjoy and be well. But to sumbit, I can't comfortably wrap myself aroung that sphere.
Regarding the media's infuence... thank you sister for clarifying controlling our media. It is important I belive, that we understand that we CAN. Including the negative images. Those images are sponsored by business and all we have to do is not support those business (you see their commercials). As for parents and care-takes being responsible for what children are being influenced by, lets not forget for a moment that too often these parents/caregivers are lost themselves. And if your mom thinks that at 4 it's cute that you can sing a sexually suggestive song, and do the video moves at the party, but she knows full well you can't spell your name or write the alphabet, can we really expect her to monitor carefully what messages the media is jamming down your throught? And bad messages are not always overt. And like it or not media shapes most of our lives. Its especially bad for those of us adults that think we are above the influence. Knowing you can be influenced better quards you from being subconsciously fed things like "those shoes are out of style"
one
Re:Submission
Wow, so, I would have to agree with you. This can be a real touchy subject for women in general, but especially black women. We are portrayed as strong, independent women, doing for self, especially throughout the media, and it overfeeds our ego, I am not saying being strong and inependent is bad, I just think that the media makes us think that we do not need our men anymore, making us think that they are not important, or better yet, making us think that we reign over our men.
I think the women who have the biggest problem with the word "submission" are those women who pick bad men, or men who do not nurture their intersts, growth, and morals, the ones that they feel that they have to take care of, otherwise, if we slow down and meditate on the men we pick before getting into a serious relationship, we may find that letting our en lead the way is not so bad. Our men do want to lead, they ae natural leaders, but this society has beat them down. Their only support is us, so we have to listen to them more than what we do as of now. They are searching for god women as well..virtuous women. Letting your mate lead the family is important to his needs as well and can alleviate a lot of arguments that just are not necessary if you truly trust your mate.
Thank you forthis post, I hope to hear from other sisters as this topic, I feel, is very important to the growth of our African world!!!!!! I'll be back soon, to check in!
ancestral mama
Re:Submission
[color=#FF0000][b]You know Mama, when you said that the media makes us think we don't need men anymore, I could not have agreed with you more. I feel the same way you do. I think it is important that we women are independent, but at the same time, if we are trying to build strong Black families, then we definately need our men. I think where this point is lost is in the fact that we don't bring to the forefront the reality that men need us too. I have no problem telling my King that I need him because I do. He reciprocates that same need for me also. Mainly, I feel that Kings and Queens need each other because our little princes and princesses need us both. If we cannot submit and allow our husbands to lead, then what are we teaching our sons about what kind of men they should be, and what are we teaching our daughters about what kind of men they should be with? Black love today is laying the foundation for Black love tomorrown[/b][/color]
Re:Submission
I am a newlywed. I've been married only two short weeks, but my husband and I have been together for five years and before that I was one of those independent strong single mothers for many, many moons. My husband and I discussed submission and the black woman many times before marriage and my answer has remained the same. Most women would LOVE to submit to her man. There is perfect order in the idea of submission. Submission is not about ruling or dictating it is about trusting that your king can hold down his castle. But right now many of our men are not in a position to be given that honor. We need work. We need some healing.
Blind submission is foolish. Gender alone does not determine a mans ability to lead. A woman should submit to her MATE and he should be her mate only after she is positive that he is worthy of her. Why is there a question about submitting to a bad mate? How have you accepted this man without him proving that he is worthy?
I'd be interested in reading responses from others.
Re:Submission
[b][color=#FF0000]Sis Andrea,
You are absolutely right. Some women feed into the hype about a shortage of men, or they feel so negatively about themselves that they are willing to accept anything just to feel that they have something. Part of the reason that some of our men are not kings is that we accept them not being kings. Sometimes we have to help our men become the kings they want to become, and othertimes we want them to be kings when they are not ready for that challenge, and women have to learn the difference. I don't think submission would be such a taboo subject for Black women if we would learn to submit to kings and not jesters.[/color][/b]
Re:Submission
I agree wholeheartedly. There is a partnership there, and while the two of you are equals, there can only be one King and one Queen, and final decisions in the family come from the King, and this is also the way I was raised. The man I chose to be King of my household and I did not make in marriage, so I now hold both titles in my household raising my daughters alone, but my King is on the horizon and I know my Creator will introduce him into our lives in due time. In all honesty, I WANT to have a King to bounce ideas off of, assist in family decisions, gatherings and finances, and help rear our children. However as Sister Jypsea pointed out, he must be aware and up to the challenge, and we must work TOGETHER to achieve the ideal family. It is NOT about control and dictatorship, it is all about loving leadership - and there is a BIG difference! We must make better decisions in choosing our Kings, just as men need to take heed and learn how to nurture and lead their families in love.
Re:Submission
Andrea, my boyfriend and I had a similar conversation the other day. And you are right. I think many of us would like to have that trusting, caring relationship where we feel safe enough to submit to our man. 8 years into our relationship, I feel I definitely can do that, but sometimes I feel guilty for feeling like that.
When I tell my friends that I like the idea of submitting to my man, they automatically make it seem as if i am stepping back into the dark ages or setting women's lib back centuries. We were all raised to be strong independent women, but I don't necessarily think it is wrong to be a queen to your king.
Re:Submission
[b]ancestralmama wrote:[/b]
[quote]We are portrayed as strong, independent women, doing for self, especially throughout the media, and it overfeeds our ego, I am not saying being strong and inependent is bad, I just think that the media makes us think that we do not need our men anymore, making us think that they are not important, or better yet, making us think that we reign over our men.[/quote]
Hi Sister, Ancestral Mama, I hear this kind of stuff all the time--about the messages from the media and other external forces that impact the way we think about our men and I would like to respectfully disagree with this point of view.
I just don't understand how people can constantly blame the media for what millions of women know and have experienced first-hand. The media gets these stories and perceptions from real life situations and while it may suit their purpose to spin stories a particular way, they cannot fabricate the treatment many of our sisters have endured at the hands of some man we loved and trusted. Many of our men exhibit behavior that make us feel that we don't want or need them.
If you run across women who think they reign over men it's usually because they haven't really been loved/cared for by a man and don't have any decent male role models in their life. This is not the media's fault. Bottom line...I think we're accustomed to giving the media way too much credit. Are we really that impressionable?
Linsey
Re:Submission
I hear what you're saying and to some point agree that we have to stop giving so much power to the powers that be like "the media" "the man," etc, but please do not sleep on the HUGE impact the media has on our daily lives. Yes it's true that real life stories are reported on, but what about all of the other real life stories that aren't? If you believe in affirmation then you know that when something is repeatedly fed to your spirt then in time it begins to take fuition. When we are constantly fed images of single black women, strong black woman, etc then we begin to see this as normal. Now couple that with the fact that our families ARE suffering and you may not have an immediate image to counter that with and you can begin to see the larger picture.
I personaly don't believe that it's the job of the media to correct themselves. I belive that we have to be more active in controllng the images and messages that we are fed via news, tv, movies, songs, etc. All of that is media. I also believe that we have to start controlling our media. That's why I love this site because it's us talking about us, not someone else telling us what's important.
Re:Submission
Hey Andrea!
You have made some valid points here--especially regarding messages being continuously fed to our spirits and since we have the ability to absorb all messages being transmitted--negative and positive, I still believe that those of us who want to be strong, healthy and independent will be more selective about which messages we identify with and accept as our truth.
Furthermore, we can no more control the media than we can control the sun rising and setting and why would be want to? Our country/constitution is governed by principles like freedom of speech and freedom of press, etc. otherwise, we wouldn't be able to express our views and opinions as freely as we do. The only thing we can control is ourselves and how we react to the world around us.
In my opinion, if more parents/caregivers took the time to love, nurture and teach our children and be a good role model in their lives, we would worry a little less about about our children being influenced by so many outside factors--like the various types of media. It's up to us...we have the ability to regain our self-control (and self-respect) in an out-of-control world.
But back to the topic at hand..."submission"...a lot (not all) of our men are doing a poor job of being responsible, connected heads of family so it's no surprise to me that women are not feeling the submission thing. As long as they keep repeating this behavior and we (women) keep making excuses for them, they will never learn to grow and be the Kings that God intended them to be.
Linsey